Tuesday 26 July 2016

John :
So ( the living flame of ?) discontent and meditation go together. Right? When you question ( the whole of ?) it, the flame is keeping alive.

Hello John, so I was on to that recently as well with Richard this morning ...

meditation is for me **the absence of thought as a leader of the whole brain**, it is still there but does not lead anymore ,somehow

I clearly have recently lived when again finding another way, as each time it must be different, of leaving sorrow be what it is,  so have been shown somehow that at each moment there are in fact two dimensions of the brain mind at work, of life as a human.

We perceive only one due to the dictatorship of thought over the brain so over all our capacities..

1) There is the ongoing analyses of thought, first of all to locate the body and its environment ,secondly to organise the physical survival up to I want to conquer the world etc etc me and what is not me, a me which possibly is the emanation, the egregore of this program we have and which consist in the watching-analysing of the environment in which it evolves for practical and safety reasons..

this sensor, this observer,  makes an image of the superficiality of the environment which is enough to move , to be safe , etc

this after a while ,out of more than that has given birth to the illusion of a "me" separated from anything else, people,animal,nature etc etc

2) there is this feeling of frustration, pain sorrow, discontentment,suffering nonsense, anxiety, fear, boredom, loneliness etc ad libitum which is there too..

Number 1 feels the presence of number 2, it does not know what it is then it now is doing two jobs, the daily one and the attempt to solve suffering ..So now number one the analyser, the sensor, the censor too, is doing two jobs at the same time, one is daily activities or so, and the other one is trying to get rid of this very annoying sensation which can be up to severe pain sensation...

About dailies activities the analyser knows a few or more things, about suffering it has not a single clue..

Bit by bit both number one and number two are now going to be dealt with thought but thought cannot do anything about suffering, yet it believes so..it sees suffering as it sees the bread on the table, not itself so....

to say such thing means that I know for myself that thought cannot deal with suffering, it is my experience as well as the one of some others..

What if one does not have done that for himself ?

discontentment allows meditation in the sense I defined it above...

what if discontentment is just a natural process ?? which aim is to bring us beyond thought power....it is what I see out of experimentation, many of them now..

the flame is keeping alive ?? does it mean that discontentment will keep it alive ? well indeed is my view...

it could well be that out of many things ,thought is discontent by nature and that would be vital to be so..??

this is my view...

cheers.

Friday 22 July 2016


Daniel Paul. wrote:
The stolen myth of Adam and Eve for me tells about our past when we still had an intelligent brain, which for me is a global brain with all our faculties turned on..
John: That's my view also about the myth of Adam and Eve, and then the 'Dictator' made its appearance and we believed him ... But if that was so, how it was that a sane brain with all its faculties turned on became mesmerized with the orders of such a 'Dictator'?

Dan: Well yes the dictator, or the censor .
it seems that Krishnamurti  and David Bohm asked such question before us...I seem to know that some human had been all their faculties turned on in some long time ago past.
if what I see is right and it could be right that what we call suffering ( in fact what lies behind) is our only catalyst to go beyond thought without searching for it as thought itself cannot do that, if so there are many chances that this fails ...
thought is a powerful tool, to go beyond as we need to do, to go beyond needs a more powerful tool, not powerful in terms of fights war of course but of a powerful peaceful energy...in fact the Origin of thought..
if this tool is what lies behind what we call suffering, it is clear that no one is naturally willing to go that way, especially in our global culture which totally now ignore what it is, I mean the culture of our past 3 000 or more years, as the present one is exactly the same mentally and psychologically apart from machines,
then looking at today, this subject is just avoided at all cost since the Buddha in fact, so some 2500 years ago ish, and the awakening does not take place....as I see it in this field it is exactly like for practical capacities, we all would have different capacities, because again this world so the entire Universe of what is, is a united one by nature...
and this for stealing and controlling reasons is negated by the thieves leading those willing to follow so having renounced to their own life too, they have entirely put everything upside down; where the collective is what is first we bring the personal and where the personal is first we bring the collective first..
to make that clearer, where the unity, the collective, the togetherness etc is what sustains everything whether it is physical or non physical we, the leaders and the followers, say that what matters is "me" first and that the sum of the fights between all "me" will create a good collective...then we get war,crimes, stealing,tortures, insecurity, etc etc
and where to be alone must be, where me must be alone into the understanding of itself , here we , the leaders and the followers , we bring first a sort of collective method, organised religion, politic, psycho blah blah, global beliefs, in short we bring first some sort of fast food churches for lazy and lost learners ...
this goes round and round in circles, it is a trap in which the people of earth are caught, willingly caught...
it can well stay that way until one mad guy will commit the irrevocable mistake....then one way or another earth will get rid of a mad creature....
I have no idea which one can emerge from that...
I had a clear vision of today's world and all took place ,that was back in 1967, but from here I am totally blind...
To sum all this up yes we are seeding war permanently, all the time...for more sorrow and pain, that is our main action apart from physical survival....
so far we think that we have nothing to do with that so as it is entirely false it goes on and on .
the brexit is just a totally superficial event and only the people behind the curtain leading the EU to a totalitarian entity are worrying that the people of earth start to understand how cheated they had been..
those insane leaders can't help to be insane, they must be stopped but by who ??...are we sane ??? not at all... the leaders are just the winners of the people fight..called competition which is hiding an analytical conceptual elimination, which is an outcome of our thinking process functioning....
so without knowing that functioning again it is a trap, a cul de sac we are in..
the intellect is not going to help , so what is left to start with...? as k says start where you are, which is I am in pain, in sorrow, fearful ,frustrated etc so am in suffering....
that is for me the only starting point we have...
and with today's entertainment and chaos despite that we never had so much goods and food for most of us, the others are actually dying from starvation or under nice democratic occidental bombing, so far nothing is going to take place at a big scale so again k is definitively right changing oneself changing the world but if this is an analytical goal ,again it will lead to more pain , more suffering etc etc
the analyser is the problem as for me it is not capable to deal with all aspects of life when we are meant to become fully grow up persons.., it is a tool for childhood and for being able to deal with practical matters only and yet , it is not good enough as we see it..this tool alone is insane....
For me and I may be totally wrong but again, dukkha is the key....the only one...
and to say a bit more here, I read or had the vision, (I can't remember which one is the right one,) that because of the nature of The Ground, of the Origin with no beginning and no end and of the nature of its creation which is what we call the physical world so us, the Origin, the Ground (thanks to K and Bohm) could not make a finished product of man as then man would have been physical-mechanical only, so not able to be linked to this Origin....
to make it clear and short , it is thought itself that must yield by renouncing to its dictatorship under the pressure of what we call suffering...this is set in stone..
the Ground of all things cannot force its way into man's thought if thought has not first renounced to its leadership, the energy of the Ground is beyond imagination but in our case does not, cannot impose itself due to its very different basic nature, peaceful, compassionate, and so much more which is totally ignored ..
thought is the key...suffering is the door...or the contrary :-))
cheers ...

Friday 1 July 2016

John wrote:
Most of us are tired to repeat to ourselves and others 'I know I'm gonna die' or 'I know that I can have a cancer or any terminal sickness at any time' or 'I know that I can lose everything at any time', without really living our lives according to that at all ...
But as some wise Buddhist said long, long ago, it doesn't matter if we acknowledge and live accordingly to the fact or not, because:
Having been born for the sake of coming to die and,
under the power of other (things),
having the situation of going (ever closer to your end),
it would appear as though you were going to die,
not as though you were going to live.
Well yes again the thinking is such fields does not bring much..well somehow thinking has dine its job to its limits, it sees death as a coming fact , end of the story...?
not at all, this process tries to do something about it with words, ..so it starts a constant conceptual struggle against a real fact up to its end...its own end it will not live or could analyse as thought can only analyse what it recorded..thought will not live its own end in fact..
death is far more powerful ( not in terms of a "terminator" of course) than thought.
John wrote:
You said it, for anyone to be seen ... so, everything depends in oneself alone.
Indeed, well to be honest I think that we have very little to do, as one may or not get some "always unexpected" help on such track...I am afraid that thought is a total stranger to what takes place then...
sort of "Heaven helps those who help themselves"...but never ever thought can count on it as if it does nothing happens...
The only action we can go into is about thoughts limits...but if one does not know deeply by experiment or even logically that what is behind suffering-dukkah-sorrow-discontentment-frustration etc etc is a process, a helper to turn on our other capacities, as well as a symptom and a catalyst...well ....:-(

I'll be away for some time off...a few weeks or so

all the best to anyone eventually passing by..

cheers
John wrote:
I put the same question  with different words: 'If we don't see at all our immediate life, how could we see that very life at a deeper level?'
Daniel Paul : Yes very same questioning..
John quoted:
Daniel Paul. wrote:
there may be a logical step in into all that ??
Personally I don't think that logic could have something to do with 'all that' ...
Yes, I put it wrongly..what I meant was a chronological logical stepping into "all that" like if I do not solve somehow partially or not problems posed by suffering - dukkha , there will be nothing else taking place if so but sale old analysing...
again this is how it worked and "works" for me...it does not mean that it has more value, but you never know :-)
I must add to be define that often when mentioning suffering many think that I talk about a big huge unbearable pain, it can be yes but not only and far from it...like k suggested ( it was in John raica forum not long ago)there is too , there may be too this constant "background noise", that I find is the natural outcome of thought itself, mostly not perceived as such , this is a sort of suffering too, tiny but constant I am aware of all the time...
this is pushing hard.....then one fails ,half fails or whatever but it is there to be lived...and when it is this clearly turns on some of our other capacities ..
so missing capacities, missing awareness that there is , missing awareness to know what to do with that etc
Buddha and k are reminders of that and of their time beyond thought.
John wrote:
I feel the same, but who wants to go straight into suffering when a mere thinking on the possibility of 'me' having a cancer brings about a tremendous fear in 'me'? ...
Personally I've been observing suffering since I was 4 or 5 years old, when they tied my left hand to the small chair I sat down in the class room just because at that time it was not allowed to use the left hand for anything ... So 51 and a half years deeply observing suffering in me as well as in others without division ... And you know what, Dan? ... I still have not found someone that wants to go with me to the root of that suffering, because the conversation always comes to a point in which the other says 'That's enough! I will not go deeper!' and leave ...
Well , that speaks to me...for different reason suffering was at me since very young too, as well as a very good energy was there so I was not destroyed by it, just affected in a mild way, then when 14 ish I found my ways in it without really thinking about it nor searching , it just seemed obvious at the time...I was not mentioning that to anyone.
This had been the trigger of what is called kundalini and more ( I know it now but I did not knew the link at the time)...but then I lost all that for some time...then suffering won for 20 years until I rediscovered about that again out of the blue ,again not by searching ..etc
I do not go hunting the roots of suffering, there is the energy behind suffering , suffering is a mere word which says too little, I know it now that this energy must be left alone, we can agree that this is still in thought field, in thought capacity : I must leave this energy alone...!!
but before that I knew it by experience, what was taking place ? suffering won !!
and "I" without reaching the idea of the ultimate escape like suicide, or as told in today quote "without becoming cynical" , "I" sees its defeat and that is so, it this takes place a "miracle" takes place too.....nothing else takes place for some time but me in sorrow and not any more me AND sorrow duality is gone for some time leaving the space to something different, this is what suffering when lived teaches...and for one thought lives its real state which is to be in some sort of pain...and for that thought must be weak......meaning that its resistance to such life is getting thinner and thinner, weaker and weaker...up to the point where it can chose not to interfere anymore for some time, whatever happens...
it is a sort of total abandon of the constant fight-resistance-self assertion, we put up with....WHATEVER THE CONSEQUENCES ARE..thought must think something on that wavelength...
This is not a static point to function from.... so again k is right, there is no method but up to a point thought must do the right things up to its limits and this is a sort of method, anywhere where thought is still really concerned there can be some sort of method beyond thought there is not...